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Author Topic: Get to know your VBAR tail better V4  (Read 1968 times)

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Offline helicraze

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Get to know your VBAR tail better V4
« on: August 28, 2009, 08:02:31 AM »
Just putting together some info to help you get the most from your tail.

Please note that the presets in VBAR are very conservative in parameters IMHO.

Also your settings are dependent on RPM and tail blades etc, not only will your holding power between smaller tails eg 105MM radix and SAB 106MM wide chord differ but the settings you run will be different.

First off I find the BLS251 much much better than the 9254, it reacts a lot quicker and allows higher gains in the software, also i run the bls251 on 6V regulated.

Settings and info about them:

-Common gain on the main screen, upto 120 on BLS251 can be run, tail will be crisper, high gain can induce wag in some instance, common gain is what is Gyro Gain on conventional gyros, the sensitivity of the overall tail system.

-Sens deadband, set to 3 in software, you can run lower if you want on electric models with bls251, higher setting means it ignores small inputs from the gyro.
-RC deadbank standard is 5, unless you have really bad pots in the radio you do not need to change it (you get drift if your pots are bad)
-Acceleration, affects both start and stops, 55-75 is a good value, personal preference, not too hard or you can strip gears/teeth
-P gain, proportional gain, 80 is fine, not likely needed to be touched, P gain defines how close the tail follows stick inputs, it's a most direct component going right through the control loop to the blades
-I gain, you can crank it up a lot if need be to keep it locked in well, upto 75 can be run, if too much you will get violent wag, no more than 75 is needed really, I gain is what Heading Hold Gain is on conventional gyros.
-I decay, not needed, its for the other gyro modes
-Stop gain A, is when you do a CW piro this affects the stops, i find 20 to be fine, you can crank it right up and the stops will be hard (maybe some TT stripping action)
-Stop gain B, same but CCW
-Optimize, some people use it some don't, leave it on for a few flights after you have tweaked the above settings if you want, its changing the overall agility of the tail etc and fine tunes stops.  The higher the value the higher its compensating to make the tail react better IMO.
-Expo, if you set to linear you can use the expo in the radio, I prefer to leave mine on deep in vbar soft (around 45expo)

NOW Torque precomp, very important!  For example you could have a heli thats feels really locked in but when you really push it the tail will blow out even though your I gain and common gain are so high any higher it would wag!
I feel that some of the stock files are incorrect, like the logo 600 file, has 12 and 6, it is not compensating enough.  I changed mine to 18 and 9 and 20 and 10, dependant on RPM and pitch.
The tail precomp is compensating like revo mix on a rate gyro, so basically the tail is acting to what your are doing with your collective and cyclic, whereas a normal gyro is reacting to what has already happened.
You fine tune these values in climbout etc, generally 18/9 is high as you would need to go, but less headspeed and RPM and high pitch may need even further.

The VBAR V4 tail is really fantastic and its best to spend some time getting it how you like it, the stock files work but can be much better.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2010, 12:25:35 PM by helicraze »

Offline Col

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Get to know your VBAR tail better V4
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2009, 10:15:14 PM »
subscribed

Offline helicraze

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Get to know your VBAR tail better V4
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2009, 01:47:34 PM »
Just a bit of an update, I am running 20/10 torque precomp and might even go more.

I have found that doing a large aileron loop clockwise (tail in to me), the tail will blow out if there is 30KMH winds blowing into the tail from behind.  This seems to be the manovuer that really tests your tail with heavy wind.
Going anticlockwise its not a drama.

Offline Martin

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Get to know your VBAR tail better V4
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2009, 08:10:39 PM »
The clockwise aileron loop is tough alright - no question about that

I'm starting to dislike the deep tail expo
I think I'm going to have to try medium
Rave | Lepton | Logo 400 & 500 & 600 | Aeolus | Sceadu | Freya | Turbulence | Avant

Offline Col

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Get to know your VBAR tail better V4
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2009, 11:12:36 PM »
i find having expo dialed in the tx feels much nicer and easier to adjust at will, than having expo in the vbar unit. as far as i know if your using it on the tx DONT add any in the vbar
I like lots of expo (arount 47 to 56) on tail as i find it better for the much finer tail movements, takes a little to get used to but it feels alot better, slow and accurate on the low end, fast pirouette on the other end.

Offline helicraze

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Get to know your VBAR tail better V4
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2009, 12:05:53 PM »
I got some SAB 106MM 30MM chord tail rotors to test on my logo 700.  They are wider chord than the radix 105MM.
Should be sweet and a really locked in tail!

Offline darrenedgell

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Get to know your VBAR tail better V4
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2009, 02:46:03 PM »
A word of caution regarding the expo. I used to use a lot of expo around 40% alround, when i first setup the vbar i left the expo on my radio at 40% alround and when i did a test flight with the vbar i was going FFF and suddenly the heli shot up and was pointing skward, The first time it did it i was a bit surprised but managed to regain control.

i tried FFF again expecting it to do the same and it did. Turned out that i had to dial the expo on my elevator expo back to 20%.

Offline helicraze

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Get to know your VBAR tail better V4
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2009, 02:57:09 PM »
I don't see how expo can make the heli shoot up randomly???

Offline darrenedgell

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Get to know your VBAR tail better V4
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2009, 04:40:29 PM »
HHmmm, i was flying fff wanted to pull back a bit... Pulling back on the elev and Nothing... Pulled back a little more and nothing... pulled back a little more and bam... 50% elevator....
The first time i was actually pulling back on the elev unconciously to straighten the heli and so did not realize at first it was the expo too high.. Someone said to try again and apply the elev and the same thing happened right on cue...and dropping the expo fixed it.

The vbar is quite a touchy little device...

Offline beans07

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Get to know your VBAR tail better V4
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2009, 11:03:52 PM »
Daz have a look deeper into your setup you may have expo in tx aswell as your vbar unit. The stock setups already have expo in the actual vbar unit. If you want to use radio expo turn expo to linear on the tail and cyclics.
 
I went from 10-20-30-40 over a couple of flights and not a lot of noticable difference especially to what you have described.
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Offline helicraze

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Get to know your VBAR tail better V4
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2009, 10:45:23 PM »
Modified the first post for some extra info
« Last Edit: September 29, 2009, 06:39:39 PM by helicraze »