Author Topic:  Soxos f3c  (Read 1584 times)

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Offline Thunder Fighter

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Soxos f3c
« on: January 07, 2017, 11:58:10 PM »
Hi Guys,

I've been enjoying getting back into flying F3C competition this season and I am also enjoying flying my SOXOS helis for my club flying so I decided to work with the designer/owner at Heli-Professional on a model that was suited to F3C flying. There are no specific plans to have this as a new model in the lineup but if there is interest it wouldn't be out of the question to see it as an option of some sort in the future. All of the parts used here are current production parts so anyone could piece this current setup together.

The Heli-Professional range of SOXOS helis includes several models from 550 to 800 size and in discussions with the factory we selected parts from the range that would optimise the platform for F3C.



We started with a DB7 model as the base as it has a strengthened main frame, heavy duty gears set and carbon front frame.



We then swapped out specific parts shown in this photo which I will cover one by one:



The DB7 has main frames that are raked forward so clearly not suitable, but the standard SOXOS 700 has larger side frames that keep the mainshaft vertical so these were the first parts required to be replaced.

Fitting these frames also mean a larger canopy is required, which I think suits the model size better than the smaller DB7 canopy so again one of the standard 700 canopies was selected.
 
As the boom is no longer raked upwards  the longer tail fin (and matching horizontal fin) from the standard 700 heli is also fitted.

As I want to try several blade sizes on the model I opted to fit the boom for the 800 setup, which will allow me to try several configurations from 710/720 up to 760/780 blades.

The SOXOS has a very high Centre of Gravity and very compact weight distribution, in order to slow the response down a little and improve stability and hovering performance the standard 700 headlock is used. It is 8.5mm taller than the DB7 headblock and interchangeable. This head does not have a centre pivot in contrast to the DB7 head, which will also give softer damping in the head.

The taller head requires some longer top links, unfortunately the DB7 turnbuckles are not long enough to use, so for now I have the standard links fitted but as the links are all M3 sized threads (including the servo to swash) I have some Lundsford turnbuckles on the the way to replace the rods. This will give me the fine adjustability required to get a perfect mechanical setup in place.

The new head also uses dual washout arms instead of the single on the DB7 head so these are also added to the configuration.

I won't detail the build in this thread as it is almost the same as the standard DB7 I have already written up here.

One picture from the build is showing how the mainframes level the heli so the mainshaft is now vertical, it also provided an additional 20mm of depth for batteries, which gives it enough room to fit 10,000mAh packs if you really wanted too. :shocked!:



Here are some pictures of the finished heli before the maiden.







The initial setup I am running is:

Scorpion HK4530-450kv (17t pinion)
YGE 160A ESC with 150A current sensor fitted (YGE Gov Store mode)
Futaba BLS273 swash and BLS274 tail servos
CGY750
2600mAh 35C Rx pack
Jeti RSat2 with SBUS firmware
6000mAh 12s 35C flight packs
Rotortech 760mm main blades and Rail 116mm tails for the maiden
+-12 degrees pitch


Weight of the airframe without packs and battery tray = 4.0kg
Pack weight with tray = 1.80kg
RTF weight = 5.8kg

The maiden flight was uneventful with the head speeds at 1400/1800/1900 the heli felt really nice in the idle up heaspeeds but had a slight elevator nod at the lower hover head speed. I bumped the hover head speed up to around 1480rpm and the nod disappeared. This is probably a better hover RPM anyway but as the dampers wear in I would expect to be able to go lower in the head speed without a nodding, there is also the option of shortening the boom down from 800 to 760 size which should reduce the tendency to nod. There is still a lot of testing to do but straight off the boards the aero performance feels very good, with excellent tail hold and if anything too much collective authority (power). I swapped to some 716 F3C blades which were more manageable but could drop the head speed or collective range with the bigger blades to calm the heli down a little. The hovering side felt fine with flat pirouettes but I will need to work on the feel some more as it is more reactive than the 766 I have been flying.

Overall a good starting point but one of the joys of F3C is spending time working on tuning the heli, and there is a lot of testing still to come as well as a few more parts being developed that I can't talk about yet which I will also be fitting and testing over the next few months.

//Dennis.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2017, 12:04:36 AM by Thunder Fighter »
SOXOS DB7 : SOXOS 600 : SOXOS 550 : SOXOS F3C
Protos 380 Evo : MSH Mini Protos FBL - stretch
SAB Goblin 700 Nightflyer : Logo 600 Buddybox trainer
CYE Stingray collective quad : and a handful of Blade Micros
MAAA Instructor Blades : Jeti DS-16
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Offline mr_squiggle

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Soxos f3c
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2017, 03:49:41 PM »
Looks good Dennis, thanks for sharing. It's good to see a manufacturer taking an interest in F3C. It will be interesting to see how you progress.


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Offline wizza

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Soxos f3c
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2017, 09:57:04 PM »
Sounds awesome mate...  Thanks for sharing and posting the photos.. I dont mind the look of that canopy with the given model and the length...

M
Regards,  Mark R......Citizen #248
TDR 710 - Mikado NEO, JR MPH83\'s, HeliJive 120, Pyro 700-52, CY 710\'s, JLog2.6, VControl
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Logo 700 - Mikado NEO, JR MPH83\'s, HeliJive 120 v13, Pyro 700-52, VTX 697\'s, JLog2.6
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Offline Thunder Fighter

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Soxos f3c
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2017, 12:17:59 AM »
Quote from: mr_squiggle;1620966
Looks good Dennis, thanks for sharing. It's good to see a manufacturer taking an interest in F3C. It will be interesting to see how you progress.

Its nice to have a manufacturer who we can work on new ideas and developments with.

Quote from: wizza;1620971
Sounds awesome mate...  Thanks for sharing and posting the photos.. I dont mind the look of that canopy with the given model and the length...

It looks well proportioned with the bigger canopy and longer boom. The design is the same as I have on my smaller 550 and I really like it, nice and bright in the air.

//Dennis.
SOXOS DB7 : SOXOS 600 : SOXOS 550 : SOXOS F3C
Protos 380 Evo : MSH Mini Protos FBL - stretch
SAB Goblin 700 Nightflyer : Logo 600 Buddybox trainer
CYE Stingray collective quad : and a handful of Blade Micros
MAAA Instructor Blades : Jeti DS-16
The arcSTAFF are here to help you.

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Offline Thunder Fighter

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Soxos f3c
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2017, 12:18:03 AM »
Quote from: mr_squiggle;1620966
Looks good Dennis, thanks for sharing. It's good to see a manufacturer taking an interest in F3C. It will be interesting to see how you progress.


Its nice to have a manufacturer who we can work on new ideas and developments with.

Quote from: wizza;1620971
Sounds awesome mate...  Thanks for sharing and posting the photos.. I dont mind the look of that canopy with the given model and the length...


It looks well proportioned with the bigger canopy and longer boom. The design is the same as I have on my smaller 550 and I really like it, nice and bright in the air.

//Dennis.
SOXOS DB7 : SOXOS 600 : SOXOS 550 : SOXOS F3C
Protos 380 Evo : MSH Mini Protos FBL - stretch
SAB Goblin 700 Nightflyer : Logo 600 Buddybox trainer
CYE Stingray collective quad : and a handful of Blade Micros
MAAA Instructor Blades : Jeti DS-16
The arcSTAFF are here to help you.

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Offline Thunder Fighter

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Soxos f3c
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2017, 09:15:58 PM »
An update after the another handful of flights.



As mentioned last time there was an elevator bobble at low head speeds, after raising it to 1580rpm with the 716 F3C blades the bobble disappeared. I wanted to see if shortening the boom would mean I could go lower with the head speed so I took 20mm off the length so it is now a 780mm setup, but it didn't seem to make much difference to the hovering.

At 1580rpm it sits in a hover nicely, but I have found that it is walking backwards when pirouetting. The CofG of the model is on the mainshaft so I will be looking at the swash setup and going through the detailed setup that Nick Maxwell discusses in his videos for the CGY720. For the initial flights I only really set the ranges and levelled the swash, I didn't spend the time to do the full detailed setup to remove all interactions.

One of the reasons I didn't do the full setup is that I need to re-do the setup now that I have the turnbuckles for the servo to swash and swash to head links.



I have this thread on HF as well and one of the guys there wanted some video of model doing an F3C flight. Ozzy was kind enough to film my flight which we split into the hover and aero sections. Unfortunately I left the markers I use for the hovering at home yesterday when we filmed this but I ran through the manoeuvres anyway. Please forgive my flight skills as I am still pretty new to doing the full F3C schedule having only flown in 2 competitions so far.

The 2 hovering manoeuvres in the P schedule

[video]https://youtu.be/jIH8d1LLWj0[/video]

And the Aerobatic manoeuvres in the P schedule (the iPhone didn't work well so the focus goes out a few time, but you can see the majority of the schedule)

[video]https://youtu.be/PfdOjgUokSs[/video]

//Dennis
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 09:26:12 PM by Thunder Fighter »
SOXOS DB7 : SOXOS 600 : SOXOS 550 : SOXOS F3C
Protos 380 Evo : MSH Mini Protos FBL - stretch
SAB Goblin 700 Nightflyer : Logo 600 Buddybox trainer
CYE Stingray collective quad : and a handful of Blade Micros
MAAA Instructor Blades : Jeti DS-16
The arcSTAFF are here to help you.

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Offline Thunder Fighter

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Soxos f3c
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2017, 01:27:54 PM »
A quick update now I've managed to do a few more flights. I have replaced the motor with a Pyro800-40 which I think is more suited in power characteristics for the F3C flying and I have a HW130 Opto that I will be putting in the heli to replace the YGE as it doesn't support auto bailout when using its internal governor. So the HW along with A Jlog2.6 for telemetry is on the bench now ready to setup.

I am still running the 716 F3C main blades and after trying some RotorTech 740's I think the 720 range is more optimal for the weight of the helis so I have some SAB 720 F3C blades to try along with the 716's I am currently using. I think I will shorten the boom further down to a 760 size just to bring the heli into a better proportion while still allowing for the longer blades if I try them again later.

I haven't been able to solve the issue of the heli walking in a hover, even after talking to Nick Maxwell who is the master at setting up the CGY, I can't seem to cure it. I may go back an do the whole setup again to see if there is something wrong in the base setup somewhere causing the issue.

The next change for the airframe will be in lowering the Centre of Gravity of the model by moving the packs down to the lower portion of the frame and temporarily mounting them there to see what impact that has on the hovering and aerobatic performance. I think it will have a positive impact on the hovering but hopefully without giving any negative traits in the aerobatic performance. I might also get around to trying the other headblock which is a little lower as it seems there is movement towards lower heads in many of the F3C models at the moment and the gains I was after in CofG from the higher head should be achieved in an even greater extent from the lower packs.

I'll post some more updates as I manage to test these changes.

//Dennis.
SOXOS DB7 : SOXOS 600 : SOXOS 550 : SOXOS F3C
Protos 380 Evo : MSH Mini Protos FBL - stretch
SAB Goblin 700 Nightflyer : Logo 600 Buddybox trainer
CYE Stingray collective quad : and a handful of Blade Micros
MAAA Instructor Blades : Jeti DS-16
The arcSTAFF are here to help you.

arcHELI Rules | Search is your friend

Offline Thunder Fighter

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Soxos f3c
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2017, 01:27:56 PM »
Posting this up as the last post was actually a couple of days ago on HF and just copied here: so here are the changes with some photos.....

New ESC and finally starting to change over to RCProplus D6 plugs. My telemerty for this setup is also changing to a Jlog 2.6 plugged into the HW programming port for my Jeti.

I have modified the battery mount so the packs now sit down on the landing gear so at 25mm lower which will make a big difference to the vertical CoG.

By taking some material out of the rear landing gear mount the ears of the battery tray (normally at the top front) will fit down between the mount and the rear boom braces and locate the tray so it will not move fore or aft while held down.

The tray is very flexible as it is made of plastic which is not an issue with the standard frame rails but isnt strong enough without support. A carbon plate along the bottom of the tray gives all the support required.

Two straps then keep the tray in place. This will work well for testing with a more permanent solution such as frame rails if it works out well.








//Dennis
« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 06:48:54 PM by Thunder Fighter »
SOXOS DB7 : SOXOS 600 : SOXOS 550 : SOXOS F3C
Protos 380 Evo : MSH Mini Protos FBL - stretch
SAB Goblin 700 Nightflyer : Logo 600 Buddybox trainer
CYE Stingray collective quad : and a handful of Blade Micros
MAAA Instructor Blades : Jeti DS-16
The arcSTAFF are here to help you.

arcHELI Rules | Search is your friend